‘You have got to go’: former NSW minister tells Icac ‘something strange at play’ when she was sacked by Perrottet
The former New South Wales fair trading minister Eleni Petinos has given evidence at a corruption inquiry that she may have been used by fellow Liberals to try to get rid of the building commissioner David Chandler, recounting numerous attempts in 2022 to persuade her he was “dodgy” and should be sacked.
She has also told the Independent Commission Against Corruption (Icac) inquiry that her subsequent sacking as a minister in the Dominic Perrottet government in July 2022 – allegedly for bullying staff – was unfair and potentially motivated by her reluctance to sack the building commissioner.
“Have you come to suspect that you … you or your office through [your chief of staff] was being in effect used to try to get rid of Mr Chandler?” the counsel assisting Peggy Dwyer SC asked.
“Subsequently, yes,” Petinos replied.
“I thought there was something very strange at play for Dominic to take the action that he did so swiftly or so coldly and without the opportunity to even put me in front of the cameras. That seemed bizarre,” she told Icac on Thursday.
Petinos gave evidence that on Friday 27 July 2022, Perrottet, who was overseas in India, had been supportive after the bullying allegations against her were published.
But by Sunday night, he had decided to sack her.
In the interim, Chandler had resigned, lodging an incendiary resignation letter with the departmental head, Emma Hogan, that alleged undue influence on the Liberal government by developers, and a lack of support by Petinos and her staff.
He was later reinstated, Icac heard. The event has raised serious questions about whether he was being undermined by some elements of the government.
Petinos told Icac that soon after she became the fair trading minister in December 2021, she had had conversations with several other Liberal staffers about Chandler.
She said around the time she was appointed, Charles Perrottet, the premier’s brother and a rightwing power broker within the Liberal party, suggested to her Chandler was “dodgy”.
Charles Perrottet is a person of interest in Operation Rosny, which is investigating alleged payments totalling $2m from the fugitive developer Jean Nassif to the Liberal party operatives Charles Perrottet, Christian Ellis and Jeremy Greenwood.
It is also looking at other payments made to a group of Liberal party rightwing operatives known as the Reformers, and whether these breach donations laws. Persons of interest in relation to this allegation are Jean-Claude Perrotet, Greenwood, Ellis and Robert Assaf.
Chandler has vigorously denied that he took bribes or had done anything wrong in relation to the informal list of building inspectors. He is expected to give evidence later in the inquiry.
Charles Perrottet is expected to appear before Icac in coming weeks.
Jean-Claude Perrottet and Greenwood have given evidence in relation to one allegation before Icac and have denied any wrongdoing in relation to taking illegal donations. Greenwood is expected to be recalled to give evidence in relation to another allegation relating to payments from Nassif. Ellis is in London and has so far refused to cooperate with Icac.
Dominic Perrottet, the former premier and brother of Charles and Jean-Claude, and Petinos have not been named as persons of interest.
Petinos agreed that she and Chandler had “robust conversations” in her office, that she had received complaints about his behaviour on building sites, and on one occasion a meeting with owners corporation representatives in her office with him had “deteriorated into a screaming match”.
But she agreed he was a tough regulator in a tough industry.
However, Petinos’s longtime friend Chris Spence, the former MP for The Entrance, kept contacting her and her chief of staff Cassandra Lawry about Chandler.
In 2022 Spence was working as chief of staff for the planning minister Anthony Roberts.
Spence had hinted in around April that year that he had a video of Chandler. He is expected to appear before Icac soon.
At first he had been vague about what was in the video, but by June 2022 he kept ringing her office about it.
“I don’t believe that he got into the detail of the video but he was insistent,” Petinos said.
She also told Icac that the then Nationals leader John Barilaro had played her an audio recording around April of Chandler on a building site making racist slurs.
“He raised, not that there were any concerns that Mr Chandler was acting in a corrupt manner, but that Mr Chandler’s language may have been upsetting to me.”
Petinos discussed it with Hogan, who was technically Chandler’s boss, saying there were concerns in the industry that Chandler was targeting “wogs”.
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Barilaro did not provide Petinos with the tape, saying he was concerned that it would lead to reprisals against people in the industry.
At the same time Spence was approaching Lawry. Lawry, who is not a person of interest, also gave evidence on Thursday.
The video, which was reported by The Australian in June 2022, shows Chandler telling a group of men in hard hats that he had an informal list of dodgy certifiers that he had provided to the banks.
Petinos told Icac the first time she saw the video was when it was published on The Australian’s website and she realised she was dealing with a “shitshow”.
She agreed that she thought it might have been leaked by Spence, but she also considered that it might have been released by whoever had supplied it to Spence.
“But there was certainly no desire [from me] to throw Mr Chandler under a bus,” she said.
On 28 July 2022, an article appeared – again in The Australian – about Petinos bullying staff.
Perrottet rang from India, on the Friday, and was “very firm that he would support me”, Petinos said.
“On the Sunday night I received a phone call from the premier, it was quite late, around 9pm or 9.30pm. He called me and he was very cold, there were no pleasantries, ‘you have got to go’. I was taken aback by that.
“The only thing that had changed between Friday and Sunday was the premier became aware of the resignation letter from Chandler.”
Earlier in the day, Lawry gave evidence about swirling rumours about Chandler in 2022, including that he took money in brown paper bags.
In May 2022, she said Spence showed her video and texts which he said showed the number of a bank account Chandler was using to take payments from developers.
On 21 June, Lawry wrote a letter to Icac reporting the video, but without naming Spence as the person who had showed her the video. She did not mention the allegations about the bank accounts.
Lawry said she sought advice from Kate Boyd, the legal counsel in the department of premier and cabinet, about whether to send the matter to Icac, as she felt there was something not quite right about it.
“Did you feel you were being set up?” Dwyer asked.
“I did,” Lawry replied.
Lawry also was reminded that, in an earlier private examination, she told investigators that she was aware Spence was good mates with Charles Perrottet.
Several of Nassif’s buildings were subject to remediation orders from the building commissioner.
Lawry told Icac that over time she came to believe that she had been used, possibly by Spence but perhaps others, over the video.
“Did it occur to you that he was abnormally insistent in relation to anything to do with Mr Chandler?” Dwyer asked.
“Perhaps I recall thinking that over time,” Lawry replied.
Read the full story at The Guardian ↗
Eleni Petinos tells inquiry her sacking as a minister in Dominic Perrottet’s government was potentially motivated by her reluctance to get rid of the building commissioner. Get…
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The former New South Wales fair trading minister Eleni Petinos has given evidence at a corruption inquiry that she may have been used by fellow Liberals to try to get rid of the building commissioner David Chandler, recounting numerous attempts in 2022 to persuade her he was “dodgy” and should be sacked.
She has also told the Independent Commission Against Corruption (Icac) inquiry that her subsequent sacking as a minister in the Dominic Perrottet government in July 2022 – allegedly for bullying staff – was unfair and potentially motivated by her reluctance to sack the building commissioner.
“Have you come to suspect that you … you or your office through [your chief of staff] was being in effect used to try to get rid of Mr Chandler?” the counsel assisting Peggy Dwyer SC asked.
“Subsequently, yes,” Petinos replied.
“I thought there was something very strange at play for Dominic to take the action that he did so swiftly or so coldly and without the opportunity to even put me in front of the cameras. That seemed bizarre,” she told Icac on Thursday.
Petinos gave evidence that on Friday 27 July 2022, Perrottet, who was overseas in India, had been supportive after the bullying allegations against her were published.
But by Sunday night, he had decided to sack her.
In the interim, Chandler had resigned, lodging an incendiary resignation letter with the departmental head, Emma Hogan, that alleged undue influence on the Liberal government by developers, and a lack of support by Petinos and her staff.
He was later reinstated, Icac heard. The event has raised serious questions about whether he was being undermined by some elements of the government.
Petinos told Icac that soon after she became the fair trading minister in December 2021, she had had conversations with several other Liberal staffers about Chandler.
She said around the time she was appointed, Charles Perrottet, the premier’s brother and a rightwing power broker within the Liberal party, suggested to her Chandler was “dodgy”.
Charles Perrottet is a person of interest in Operation Rosny, which is investigating alleged payments totalling $2m from the fugitive developer Jean Nassif to the Liberal party operatives Charles Perrottet, Christian Ellis and Jeremy Greenwood.
It is also looking at other payments made to a group of Liberal party rightwing operatives known as the Reformers, and whether these breach donations laws. Persons of interest in relation to this allegation are Jean-Claude Perrotet, Greenwood, Ellis and Robert Assaf.
Chandler has vigorously denied that he took bribes or had done anything wrong in relation to the informal list of building inspectors. He is expected to give evidence later in the inquiry.
Charles Perrottet is expected to appear before Icac in coming weeks.
Jean-Claude Perrottet and Greenwood have given evidence in relation to one allegation before Icac and have denied any wrongdoing in relation to taking illegal donations. Greenwood is expected to be recalled to give evidence in relation to another allegation relating to payments from Nassif. Ellis is in London and has so far refused to cooperate with Icac.
Dominic Perrottet, the former premier and brother of Charles and Jean-Claude, and Petinos have not been named as persons of interest.
Petinos agreed that she and Chandler had “robust conversations” in her office, that she had received complaints about his behaviour on building sites, and on one occasion a meeting with owners corporation representatives in her office with him had “deteriorated into a screaming match”.
But she agreed he was a tough regulator in a tough industry.
However, Petinos’s longtime friend Chris Spence, the former MP for The Entrance, kept contacting her and her chief of staff Cassandra Lawry about Chandler.
In 2022 Spence was working as chief of staff for the planning minister Anthony Roberts.
Spence had hinted in around April that year that he had a video of Chandler. He is expected to appear before Icac soon.
At first he had been vague about what was in the video, but by June 2022 he kept ringing her office about it.
“I don’t believe that he got into the detail of the video but he was insistent,” Petinos said.
She also told Icac that the then Nationals leader John Barilaro had played her an audio recording around April of Chandler on a building site making racist slurs.
“He raised, not that there were any concerns that Mr Chandler was acting in a corrupt manner, but that Mr Chandler’s language may have been upsetting to me.”
Petinos discussed it with Hogan, who was technically Chandler’s boss, saying there were concerns in the industry that Chandler was targeting “wogs”.
after newsletter promotion
Barilaro did not provide Petinos with the tape, saying he was concerned that it would lead to reprisals against people in the industry.
At the same time Spence was approaching Lawry. Lawry, who is not a person of interest, also gave evidence on Thursday.
The video, which was reported by The Australian in June 2022, shows Chandler telling a group of men in hard hats that he had an informal list of dodgy certifiers that he had provided to the banks.
Petinos told Icac the first time she saw the video was when it was published on The Australian’s website and she realised she was dealing with a “shitshow”.
She agreed that she thought it might have been leaked by Spence, but she also considered that it might have been released by whoever had supplied it to Spence.
“But there was certainly no desire [from me] to throw Mr Chandler under a bus,” she said.
On 28 July 2022, an article appeared – again in The Australian – about Petinos bullying staff.
Perrottet rang from India, on the Friday, and was “very firm that he would support me”, Petinos said.
“On the Sunday night I received a phone call from the premier, it was quite late, around 9pm or 9.30pm. He called me and he was very cold, there were no pleasantries, ‘you have got to go’. I was taken aback by that.
“The only thing that had changed between Friday and Sunday was the premier became aware of the resignation letter from Chandler.”
Earlier in the day, Lawry gave evidence about swirling rumours about Chandler in 2022, including that he took money in brown paper bags.
In May 2022, she said Spence showed her video and texts which he said showed the number of a bank account Chandler was using to take payments from developers.
On 21 June, Lawry wrote a letter to Icac reporting the video, but without naming Spence as the person who had showed her the video. She did not mention the allegations about the bank accounts.
Lawry said she sought advice from Kate Boyd, the legal counsel in the department of premier and cabinet, about whether to send the matter to Icac, as she felt there was something not quite right about it.
“Did you feel you were being set up?” Dwyer asked.
“I did,” Lawry replied.
Lawry also was reminded that, in an earlier private examination, she told investigators that she was aware Spence was good mates with Charles Perrottet.
Several of Nassif’s buildings were subject to remediation orders from the building commissioner.
Lawry told Icac that over time she came to believe that she had been used, possibly by Spence but perhaps others, over the video.
“Did it occur to you that he was abnormally insistent in relation to anything to do with Mr Chandler?” Dwyer asked.
“Perhaps I recall thinking that over time,” Lawry replied.
Read the full story at The Guardian ↗
The former New South Wales fair trading minister Eleni Petinos has given evidence at a corruption inquiry that she may have been used by fellow Liberals to try to get rid of the building commissioner David Chandler, recounting numerous attempts in 2022 to persuade her he was “dodgy” and should be sacked.
She has also told the Independent Commission Against Corruption (Icac) inquiry that her subsequent sacking as a minister in the Dominic Perrottet government in July 2022 – allegedly for bullying staff – was unfair and potentially motivated by her reluctance to sack the building commissioner.
“Have you come to suspect that you … you or your office through [your chief of staff] was being in effect used to try to get rid of Mr Chandler?” the counsel assisting Peggy Dwyer SC asked.
“Subsequently, yes,” Petinos replied.
“I thought there was something very strange at play for Dominic to take the action that he did so swiftly or so coldly and without the opportunity to even put me in front of the cameras. That seemed bizarre,” she told Icac on Thursday.
Petinos gave evidence that on Friday 27 July 2022, Perrottet, who was overseas in India, had been supportive after the bullying allegations against her were published.
But by Sunday night, he had decided to sack her.
In the interim, Chandler had resigned, lodging an incendiary resignation letter with the departmental head, Emma Hogan, that alleged undue influence on the Liberal government by developers, and a lack of support by Petinos and her staff.
He was later reinstated, Icac heard. The event has raised serious questions about whether he was being undermined by some elements of the government.
Petinos told Icac that soon after she became the fair trading minister in December 2021, she had had conversations with several other Liberal staffers about Chandler.
She said around the time she was appointed, Charles Perrottet, the premier’s brother and a rightwing power broker within the Liberal party, suggested to her Chandler was “dodgy”.
Charles Perrottet is a person of interest in Operation Rosny, which is investigating alleged payments totalling $2m from the fugitive developer Jean Nassif to the Liberal party operatives Charles Perrottet, Christian Ellis and Jeremy Greenwood.
It is also looking at other payments made to a group of Liberal party rightwing operatives known as the Reformers, and whether these breach donations laws. Persons of interest in relation to this allegation are Jean-Claude Perrotet, Greenwood, Ellis and Robert Assaf.
Chandler has vigorously denied that he took bribes or had done anything wrong in relation to the informal list of building inspectors. He is expected to give evidence later in the inquiry.
Charles Perrottet is expected to appear before Icac in coming weeks.
Jean-Claude Perrottet and Greenwood have given evidence in relation to one allegation before Icac and have denied any wrongdoing in relation to taking illegal donations. Greenwood is expected to be recalled to give evidence in relation to another allegation relating to payments from Nassif. Ellis is in London and has so far refused to cooperate with Icac.
Dominic Perrottet, the former premier and brother of Charles and Jean-Claude, and Petinos have not been named as persons of interest.
Petinos agreed that she and Chandler had “robust conversations” in her office, that she had received complaints about his behaviour on building sites, and on one occasion a meeting with owners corporation representatives in her office with him had “deteriorated into a screaming match”.
But she agreed he was a tough regulator in a tough industry.
However, Petinos’s longtime friend Chris Spence, the former MP for The Entrance, kept contacting her and her chief of staff Cassandra Lawry about Chandler.
In 2022 Spence was working as chief of staff for the planning minister Anthony Roberts.
Spence had hinted in around April that year that he had a video of Chandler. He is expected to appear before Icac soon.
At first he had been vague about what was in the video, but by June 2022 he kept ringing her office about it.
“I don’t believe that he got into the detail of the video but he was insistent,” Petinos said.
She also told Icac that the then Nationals leader John Barilaro had played her an audio recording around April of Chandler on a building site making racist slurs.
“He raised, not that there were any concerns that Mr Chandler was acting in a corrupt manner, but that Mr Chandler’s language may have been upsetting to me.”
Petinos discussed it with Hogan, who was technically Chandler’s boss, saying there were concerns in the industry that Chandler was targeting “wogs”.
after newsletter promotion
Barilaro did not provide Petinos with the tape, saying he was concerned that it would lead to reprisals against people in the industry.
At the same time Spence was approaching Lawry. Lawry, who is not a person of interest, also gave evidence on Thursday.
The video, which was reported by The Australian in June 2022, shows Chandler telling a group of men in hard hats that he had an informal list of dodgy certifiers that he had provided to the banks.
Petinos told Icac the first time she saw the video was when it was published on The Australian’s website and she realised she was dealing with a “shitshow”.
She agreed that she thought it might have been leaked by Spence, but she also considered that it might have been released by whoever had supplied it to Spence.
“But there was certainly no desire [from me] to throw Mr Chandler under a bus,” she said.
On 28 July 2022, an article appeared – again in The Australian – about Petinos bullying staff.
Perrottet rang from India, on the Friday, and was “very firm that he would support me”, Petinos said.
“On the Sunday night I received a phone call from the premier, it was quite late, around 9pm or 9.30pm. He called me and he was very cold, there were no pleasantries, ‘you have got to go’. I was taken aback by that.
“The only thing that had changed between Friday and Sunday was the premier became aware of the resignation letter from Chandler.”
Earlier in the day, Lawry gave evidence about swirling rumours about Chandler in 2022, including that he took money in brown paper bags.
In May 2022, she said Spence showed her video and texts which he said showed the number of a bank account Chandler was using to take payments from developers.
On 21 June, Lawry wrote a letter to Icac reporting the video, but without naming Spence as the person who had showed her the video. She did not mention the allegations about the bank accounts.
Lawry said she sought advice from Kate Boyd, the legal counsel in the department of premier and cabinet, about whether to send the matter to Icac, as she felt there was something not quite right about it.
“Did you feel you were being set up?” Dwyer asked.
“I did,” Lawry replied.
Lawry also was reminded that, in an earlier private examination, she told investigators that she was aware Spence was good mates with Charles Perrottet.
Several of Nassif’s buildings were subject to remediation orders from the building commissioner.
Lawry told Icac that over time she came to believe that she had been used, possibly by Spence but perhaps others, over the video.
“Did it occur to you that he was abnormally insistent in relation to anything to do with Mr Chandler?” Dwyer asked.
“Perhaps I recall thinking that over time,” Lawry replied.
Read the full story at The Guardian ↗
This lens runs the verified story through Cinnamon's AI — wired in the next step.
- Eleni Petinos tells inquiry her sacking as a minister in Dominic Perrottet’s government was potentially motivated by her reluctance to get rid of the building commissioner.